Hi everyone It's Ryan Hoover your host of Prague tent radio where I'm joined by the founders investors and makers and shaping the future of tech Today Lee Jacobs and Brian Balfour are joining me An angel ist h Q Back in the day Lee Jacobs is actually one of the first syndicate leads at Angel IST and he later went on to join the company as a partner Prior to that you started education Marketplace Startup called campus Doc actually got to know we at Angel List a few years ago He was kind enough to help me craft my deck when I was out there raising my first fund He's now a full time investor of his own fund called a Device which he started with Brian Bell for Elaine Weary and Thomas Jonas Brian Val for invest part time at a device and sends a majority of his time as a CEO of Re Forge a professional education program for experience practitioners One of my teammates is actually gone through the program It's great Prada reforge Brian was a V p A Growth that hub spot e i R A trained the Ventures and the founder of a few companies including Boundless Learning Pop single and Dixie Mo on the podcast We checked all about VC If you're thinking about raising a fund or maybe just curious about this weird world of venture capital listen in way chat about also Lian Brian Saber APS and tasty chocolate bars and you didn't see that coming But before I jump in I wanna give a shout out to our sponsors the sexual Wellness Spaces building But most innovation and investment has been focused on the body rather than the brain Dipsy is changing that by taking a mind first approach to female sexuality with an app for short sexy audio stories Which makes sense considering ninety percent of women use mental framing to get turned on the buy size audio stories are perfect for solo or couples listening to set the mood spark your imagination and start intimate conversation headed Gypsy stories dot com slash product That's D I P s e a stories dot com slash product Hon to download the Io Stop The first few stories air free Introducing spoken me anew incredibly easy to use Videoconferencing Tool designed for small businesses featuring HD video and crystal clear Audio spoken meat just worse Joined video conferencing in seconds with no damn it required And you'LL get unlimited meetings Unlimited recordings for only eleven ninety nine month Secure and reliable With access from anywhere you have an Internet connection or phone connection we're able to simply me one more spoke a dotcom that's spelled S P Okay And sign up for free Thirty a trial All right I'm here with Brian and Lee has going Guys Hey

Going Well thanks for having us

Thanks for coming on It's a headshot day at Angel ist So of course people on the podcast listening to the podcast will not see this flash That is you know disturbing us But I thought you were

trying to throw us off and blind me and get me tow You know say something stupid

Yeah that's that's actually the goal The fickle every podcast I failed so far with all of the guests

Questions is what colored lasers air unit put in the background

I know I know We should We should photoshopped something epic So introduce yourself Brian I e mailed you a long time ago Pre product hon I think one day and I was like Hey do you want to meet me I don't think I had an agenda but remember we met six seven years ago

Yeah it was quite a time ago Yeah I mean my brief history is sort of my first venture back company out of schools during the whole like social gaming craze Facebook platform using farm bill all that kind of stuff Did the whole like raise a ton of money and spent a ton of money And we saw that company Tab Joy than did a second venture back company called Bottomless Learning where we were taking on the big textbook publishers help college students And then we succeeded in pissing off the textbook publishers enough that the three biggest ones that observing us that kind of sect But we told that company to a check competitors And then I spent some time on the venture side is in the i R A Trinity adventurers ended up his hub spot is the VP of growth And now I run a professional education company called Re Fortune That's been twisting turns

I'm not sure how we met Ryan but I think you know you were someone I knew of for a while but I think we formally got to know each other at Angel ist Andi was Yeah we worked on a few interesting stuff together in collaboration So Yeah my story was I moved to the valley in two thousand ten I started a company that that English learning online So

you have a connection there in education

Yeah it's interesting It's ah it's ever actually thought about that I Yeah I have Yeah I think Yeah And we end up investing in about two education companies to so I don't know if you know but that's part of our thesis brand So yes art education company to rent that for about two years but then decided that I love like finding really smart passionate people and getting them set up and raising capital But I didn't want to run the business day today anymore So I decided to go into investing So I raised a really small amount of capital from some family and friends and kind of got that started in around two thousand thirteen And as part of the process I company that I invested in in Brazil called Desk Angelica I was having a seriously around That was pretty large Thursday and I couldn't figure out how to come up with seven hundred thousand dollars to invest in it But no Vaal have I looked I was looking really with a magnifying glass and it just was I came up with like three cents No but the truth is that you know what This at that time novel actually announced syndicates and I was like Oh man this is just a revolution I saw it immediately This is literally putting online what I had done offline So I think it's a little debated within Ingeles If I did the first or second syndicate we could look at the record but I believe I say that I was one of the earliest people to do it Angel syndicate And it just that boot strap my investing career So I made a stopover at MHS Capital tto learn how the pros did it and learned a lot from a guy named Mark Sugarman There And then in two thousand fifteen I decided that I wanted to put together a small fund I had known Brian from I think a mutual friend of ours Dan Skolnick Ah who's been a Trinity Ventures And he and you know we got to talk And then I had been good friends with Elaine where you found me Bow and Todd Miss Onus who founded Plaxo on we'd been kind of trading deals together for a few years So I brought all four of these really talented and very different people which we'll talk about a little bit later together and said Let's start a fund So we started something called advice

We're the name come from

Actually Yeah eso Elaine and Todd started Dannielynn chocolate So before they both done tech stuff and they ended up starting a company called Daniel and Chocolate which is here in the mission and actually growing pretty quickly in Japan And the dandy lion flowers is obviously a flower and a little vice is a sister flower to that on it Crows really high on the tops of the Alps and is a really resilient flower on DH is very rare So that's sort of one of the things that we've really been important to us and we look at entrepreneurs or how resilient they are It's also from the song It's very welcoming song and sound of music So that's the That's the flower education on the podcast Yeah yeah yeah yeah We're aspiring botanists That's right Nikhil Pollen So yes so we've invested upwards of around ten million dollars or so in the last few years Off altogether we've done Wonder School and Pipe if I and Kettle on fire in a range of different companies So yeah that's kind of my background

It's interesting here

that that's that's how you remember the story I mean it it's right But it was actually much more meandering than that because so I was in Boston for a number of years I had done some angel investing and when I came back to San Francisco I was going to do some angel investing again I remember sitting in Delores Park with Lee and lease just like Don't you know You know he's doing his Lee thing telling me about the syndicate thing and like get me all excited about I'm like Oh my God this is crazy And we basically ended up were like look like Why don't we pool deal flow and money together and cut the work with We are sorry with Todd in the lane And so we just started with our own money and that was the starting point That's right But then that actually ended up quickly We did a couple deals and then quickly evolved into raising more like traditional LP capital And then that evolved into doing more doing more syndicate That's also it's been multiple station we've deployed How much money at this point

Close to ten million dollars

necklace Two million dollars So started really small So for those aspiring investors out there like you don't actually have to start like with like a twenty million dollar fund or whatever Like it can actually just evolve And I think that's kind of what we do is we just sort of like started investing and it kind of evolved into this thing Brian has a

better memory That is actually happened I guess for me I always knew that I wanted to reserve a fun So

that's who I feel like you are Always have some like Grand Master Plan that I only know fifty percent So

petting a cat right now Yeah yeah he's got some Yeah

what can I say Yeah Yeah Anyway that's that's the truth

How did you So when you all for you came together And how did you decide Can your process and also what you want to invest in What was that conversation like Yeah

so we did actually discuss those questions very specifically Remember from the conversation we way went through a few generations but we eventually just ended up on like Hey you know what We're gonna learn a lot So why don't we just try to keep this as flexible as possible And so we ended up coming with just like I think what most people would call like a champion model which is like somebody anybody Khun sponsor the deal and you know fight for really hard on If they really want to do the deal like we'LL do the deal as a group so no specific like majority vote or anything like that But the purpose behind whatever we came up with was just like he bit flexible and learn and I think this is but Todd actually pushed us on this quite a bit I think it's like a really smart thing to do is like when I think When you get into investing you just kinda learn like your style your superpower You're focused your advantage your strategy whatever it is So just like keep a little bit leaves At least that's how I remember the conversation we barely ever coming There's another

element to that So that's totally right And Elaine and Todd specifically they've been around for a long time famously Ah lot Gil was an Internet plaxo Elaine hired Kevin Nystrom and you know they helped hip chat get started in a number of other and their early investors and Fitbit And I think from there what they noticed that they're just generally super helpful people And they just help anyway And they said huh You know if we had invested in all of our friends we would

do pretty well I've heard that that pattern quickly among people in Silicon Valley a special

yeah yes I think that's also a part of it And one of our best investments came out of a relationship that Justin I mean Brian had known for a long time this guy named Justin Mars I think you may know and Kettle fire He was just like Look he's a smart really young hungry guy and we're just going toe back And no One I had no idea what bone broth wass By the way when he told me what he was working on I pretended I said Yeah that sounds cool

I had to go Google it think it's to the point which is like I think I think there's some investors out there that are very like super super thesis driven and some were like very people driven I don't know different strategies but I think I might take a lot more than treaty This is just like we're not the best at like like forming and finding the most interesting ideas and markets like this the operators right and so on And so we've invested across a huge range of things and kept it flexible on purpose and so far that's gone well Obviously it'LL play out over time like a long a long period of time But with so much interesting stuff going on with technology disrupting all of these different industries it's like I'm not going to sit here and pretend I know like how how it's gonna play out and like what opportunities like I think that lease that's been our style is just like you know and just you know let the let the entrepreneurs let the people who have like an organic connection with you know those problem areas like there through the ones that are going to navigate and find the interesting problems

Yeah I always say that I'm not talking to the customers out there It's up to the entrepreneur Did I How did I have a point of view on what people want My job is to evaluate the thinking of the person behind the entrepreneur and how passionately they see that problem and get me excited So I try to have something I learned from Mark Sugar Mint have a very open mind and let the and build a business case from bottoms up And the new best thing is going to come from who knows But I think thesis driven is just not my style

Other particular questions or areas that you dive into when you meet a founder is a Is there one or two questions that you always asked to assess some of those qualities

Yeah I always ask you know usually the people that I'm talking to her super smart and bright and have a lot of opportunities So I always ask your super smart and bright Why are you working on this You could be working on so many other things that

question a lot to you and I find that the answer is sometimes very telling of their motivations And it's not It's just interesting elicits personal stories and questions And I met with a founder yesterday actually and she illustrates founder market fit tremendously And she got emotional not in an irrational sense by any means but like very emotional and teared up about the problems she was trying to solve And I was like Wow like she's clearly bought in She's not doing it to make money or you know for for other reasons She doing what he wants to help this problem

Yeah yeah I know the way that I find that is like So I asked the same question And I think the question I'm always evaluating my in my head is do they have an organic connection with the problem Are not like so So the opposite of that would be just like kind of like a spreadsheet business right Like somebody who's if they tell a story

of like point one percent of this trillion dollar market

Yeah or like you know I stumbled across You know this opportunity is just like I just think it's like a massive market right And look there have been successful companies built that way no doubt right I just think for ah specifically I think those that have more of the organic connection with the problem of are the type of people that we enjoy working with And so I don't think there's a right or wrong answer to that question It's I think more of personal is more of a style thing Yeah

yeah and that's something toe point we're talking about a little earlier is that it's you know product market fit is an idea And then there's founder market fit But I think there's investor strategy fit and you have to find the right thing For you is a group that makes sense based on the unique skills and how you see the world and make things right

or wrong Investors tried it but I like that phrase What is yours and how do you How is it may be different Your team Yes

So I mean I think the first thing is like really from a people perspective Do they have an organic connection with the problem that they're solving I think the second thing just so My background has all been in sort of this What is now kind of labeled growth but kind of emerging of basically what what has happened over software and tech over the past ten years is that the most powerful companies have moved from marketing and sales focus growth machines to product it an engineering focus Growth machines like those of the lovers that you actually pull until I grow the company I can't have stumbled into it That's kind of what I focused on But I think everybody kind of looks at companies through a different lens and this is the lens that I look at things through And what that's really about is like thinking about like Well what are the input to growth of this business and how might they play out over time So it's very easy for anybody to look at like LTV and cohort charts and cack and like all that kind of stuff and say good bad Whatever the actual the real question is is not what they are today But actually how might they evolve over time depending on like what those levers and loops look like And so that

you have given example of that I haven't some assumptions but like an example of maybe how those levers in interact with each other

Look look I'll take the Since we only have a short period of time I'Ll take the easiest one and this is This is kind of just like a T ball but it's like you know a lot of people I've seen a lot of pitches kind of walk in there like hope like we're growing at this rate and you know they're using paint acquisition which is not actually like some people are against it I'm like that That's fine They're like our Capitol TV numbers are this and then they show me their projections and and it's really about just like scaling up the page budget And But when you actually look at like a payed growth loop almost always unless you have network effects in the business is that the steps and the levers of those loop get worse over time On DSO like cack increases you end up acquiring lower and lower intent users Which hits your retention your payback period like all these things play out right and that's going to severely affect how the business grows And so there needs to be another hypothesis in that business of like Okay well why do those economics actually stay the same or get better Or how do we use this to leverage to another type of growth loop and so evaluating there's inputs and trying to like play it out over time And it's just something I've spent almost my whole career on And I feel like I'm still far from you know quote unquote like mastering it right or but I don't probably is no kind of concept of expertise mastery there But that just generally tends to be the lens that I look at things through And a lot of people in the reforge like community tends to look at things through and focus on and sew and those tend to be a lot of the conversations I have this our company's too and founders and help him help him think through because those are the ones that actually if you don't get right cause down rounds and dilution and like all the all the nasty things So

So I think to summarize Brian's investor strategy fit is where his unique skill set and the things he spent his entire career on can really add value to a company and finding companies like that They and that's where he's going to get unfair pricing and be able to get into deals that others wouldn't So I think that's a really unique skill for Brian For me I think you know spending a lot of time in angel ist and seeing how fundraising works Having seen thousands and thousands of deals I really dig in on fundraising and helping companies with their initial strategies around how to get to go to market and figure out how to position the story and then helping them raise three seats on Capitol And then I'm sort of a utility player and a lot of other ways having been through it didn't throw up you know Ah difficult cofounder Break up which you know my co founder Kalinga was one of my best men of my wedding So it ended up being OK but couldn't kind of different direction Yeah so I kind of have seen a lot of different things and help you know kind of be a near tow the entrepreneur and build You know I think I helped to build relationships with people quickly and try to go deepest quickly as possible

No code spaces matured quite a ton since I was a kid Actually built my first website using Dream Weaver Nowadays even build advance with maps without writing code using bubble bubble Launch on product went back in two thousand fifteen Now more than two hundred fifty thousand makers and companies have used bubble to build marketplaces social networks serums and more inside their browser Check it out at bubbled iess slash product to get started for free So you seen your work is a lot of people raising funds including myself My first fun You helped a lot with the pitch and the messaging in the deck and all those things

I remember being like you were going to definitely raise an awesome fund like you don't need my help

So it was You know whenever you do something for the first time It's always there's things that you know you don't know and there's the unknown unknowns and having some that's gone through it before it's really helpful What are some of the many mistakes or or tips What me However you want to frame it that you've seen kind of like first time fund managers make when they're raising a fund or or just starting out is like a first time fund manager and

yeah yeah that's a good question You know I'll think about all the things you did right and then maybe the opposite would be the best thing But I think you really position your value proposition and what you did around your entire career I mean I remember you know talking about building up a community and how I remember when Nevada was so excited about buying product hunt he talked about your superpower as one that was just engaging a group of people all over the world and building that in system and a scalable way And I think that's a really rare thing So I think when you go out and I've seen this in your pitch when you out and try to find cos you're very related focused on like can I actually help this company in this particular way So I think you know that's the right thing to do On the opposite end of the spectrum is you know not being true to who the person is whether she's a really awesome you know enterprise sales person And she wants to go focus on some help in a totally different way That is a strategy that's that's probably not authentic I think the key is figuring out who you are what your your investor strategy if it is and designing a strategy and a way that you're going to get deal flow and what the right check sizes were going to be in what the portfolio construction is going to be based on who you are uniquely so I think a lot of people just say I'm going to invest and give a bunch of people some money and it's going to be great but they haven't necessarily thought through You know what The next order of things that come out of that

Yeah some some ways you can kind of describe is like What are you selling If you're a product totally funds of product what are you selling Total And then how do you

What's your value Prop Like

what You do want to do everything of course but you need

well no that's that's like just like any product any product that trances I do everything like that's the disaster right So you get to something

part of It's from a strategy perspective then part of some being different because right now there are so many early stage funds In fact on Angelus we have over one hundred thirty funds running on the platform and so they're more more funds kind of in the marketplace So how do you convince Founders to take your money You talked a little about your focus and kind of areas of focus and expertise but how do you fight for deals in a deal with which is really competitive Jimmy stories you can share like

Lisa Scrapper Hey he's a scrapper and I think that's actually why we work so well together is like I mean look like investing is actually a very time consuming thing Like I'm full time operator Investing is kind of a side enjoyment everything for me and Todd in leaner Our other two partners are also full time operators And so for any operators out there who are also thinking about investing I would highly encourage you to think about finding a partner who's just has a totally different superpower than you Because like least superpower is like yeah he just He tends to connect with entrepreneurs and then scrap his way into things and because it's ah it's a time it's a time consuming game So I mean I think I mean I don't know you You're you're in the urine on the front lines of that more than I am

Yeah I think for me I tend to the thing that I love doing and my my my favorite you know this will just changes and deal deal ideal basis But finds find someone that's like I remember Daria voice ops for example Like it was clear to me that she was super super smart and was going to do something interesting And we took a pretty large We're like we're in and we bet early and then what I did was I made sure to help her throughout the entire process But I think you do something similar Ryan where you helped them kind of navigate the fundraising process And since you've had so much value in such a short period of time you know either introduced into the lead or help them negotiate with the lead or introduce it to someone else who made an offer that gave them leverage with their lead So that's like I think a really powerful strategy and you end up being there you know if you introduce them to lead Hopefully that leads not going to cut you out of the deal because so I think that's one strategy and

we'LL just go back to what you were talking about before just like think about yourself as a product you're going to have to fight for your first customers no matter what you did right like that That's a given But then the question is is like Well if you were treating yourself as a product what would you do Well you would do everything you could possibly could to make sure that you like make that customer successful So you have phenomenal word of mouth right and as the second that you have another founder like going to another founder saying like I would I would take Ryan's money any day of the week That's going to make the process that much easier now You know the question is is like What is that thing you do for them that generates that word of mouth like going back to that value prop right You kind of have to think about yourself as a product and you're launching a product and like what are the things that you would do in orderto kind of you know get that initial base and then get the word of mouth going then kind of built on top of that and eventually it starts toe built to a point where you're getting pulled into deals by other people People are coming to you like stuff like that So gotta fight and all that kind of stuff and constantly prove yourself and stuff But it becomes more a lot more in those first few deals a lot more energy and then it gets a little bit easier over time I think

Yeah I mean I learned I saw something recently Injuries in her What's this amazing thing where they were competing for a deal and they just had The founder just had like ten e mails in his inbox from very very well known people And he was like Ah Woz you know call it Steve Jobs Wasn't Steve Jobs obviously But the equivalent of something like that emailing me and telling me about and how great engine Horowitz was like I was like I'm going to use that strategy So in the last few things I've actually started doing that And it's great because as Brian said it this is a reputation business And my thinking has always been to provide a CZ much value as I can and don't ask for things in return and build a network of people that you know I've helped cause I love helping people And then in turn that comes back And that's that's true about a lot of yeah in the last few years of my career

Yeah it's It's one of the most relationship to other businesses that takes a long time to play out both in the returns but also in those relationships Yeah you know people you might meet today might start a company in five years And that one meeting or that one piece of help might might get you into a deal or get you more visibility into things

One thing I learned from my time in Angeles was Nova would always talk about the long long term interest compounds and the value of thinking really long term on That's true about how you build your business but how you build your network So I've taken that to heart

So what What products do you love Could be absent your home screen or things you use

Yeah So I'll start with one I actually I was talking to my wife back of this morning about it I was like Ryan asked about products and so this is really more both of ours But there's this product meat You've probably seen it called Gratitude Journal The Gratitude journal Yes So the gravity journalists the idea every morning are supposed to write down bigger grateful for that given day And there's science behind it which effectively talks about how you're actually prime in your brain to be positive and being an optimist which is better than being a pessimist it turns out so that I think there's a product may be called the five minute Gratitude Journal or something like that online

Justin Con recommended on the podcast actually

Oh interesting Okay so that's that's one that I think is really great And then one that I've just been a fan of I had some earlier is You know our partners in the lane have this amazing being to bar chocolate company called Daniel and Chocolate in the Mission And they've basically applied what Everything they learned in the tech world Tio how to make it is the best possible chocolate And they won crazy awards around the world And you know more people should know about Daniel and chocolate It's one of my favorites and you could do a lot with it Hot chocolate or make treats and stuff like that Whore's s'mores Amazing s'mores Yeah yeah

it's funny cause I feel like I have for being in tech like I don't adopt as many new products as like I feel like other people in the industry do so like I don't know there's very few things but the two one is crisp Today I we operate as a distributed team and sometimes I just get caught in meetings I have a lot of background noise And so what Christmas yeah does is like you just you turn it on and they use like machine Learning's have to filter out like all the background noise And it works remarkably well like remarkably well and so like for any distributed team out there highly recommend that one And then I feel like a product that doesn't get as much coverage or not as mean Pop people talk about is YouTube TV like I cut the cord and would switch to YouTube TV I'd love it like it's great is like forty bucks a month E u is just so much better that recording on it is so much better like it knows when like Michigan basketball is ready to play and just let the man is just so much better than any other Comcast or anything else out there So obviously a big company product But for some reason like I feel like it doesn't get its share

idea really No I have used it once I think I registered for the trial and then set a calendar writer to cancel because like watch something some live TV I can't remember what Okay Yeah it was a sports game Yeah yeah

I'm a sports person So that's why yeah for me

for sports fans because I think it's it's forty dollars a month

He has forty bucks a month The mobile app is great The yeah I like that The Web app is great but it's yeah it's been also

what kind of content deals that I have Like Can you get It's all that CSU can get it

you know not HBO It's just like it's all the major like basically like live not non premium channels

Yeah will spread across the Netflix Hu Lu HBO Amazon Prime Video I think that's basically it which probably adds up to around forty dollars a month as well but I don't watch live content Normally I don't usually watch sports So if I did YouTube TV and probably the right thing yes I'm not going I'm not going

to wait What about years You're you're the product you're the product So I feel like I just

asked that every day

Yeah let's share this year You probably

have like ten million things on your phone and computer

Well the funny thing is I have to remember what have I shared on the podcast already raised So actually one thing Twitter So there's not called Twitter that I've been using No way Tell me more I'm using the new Twitter Beta and have you seen it or played with it

So you're talking about like literally the spell the way originally was

right Yeah I actually haven't played I haven't played with the beta Yeah

yeah So you know it's It's Twitter As you would expect The big difference is that they're focusing on conversations is a clear priority for them They want to really facilitate more conversation on Twitter And from a business perspective that makes sense You know one of the most engaging things within any kind of social software is when a person at mentions you are recognizes you in some way And so the beta right now it's it's using kind of this new threating you eye instead of kind of a flat single thread kind of Ah you y they kind of taken more of a traditional form like threading approach where you just make sense You'LL see a threat Of course Where someone tweet something someone replies somewhere replies to that replies from replaced that reply And it allows you to dive deeper into certain conversations Well still kind of being able to scan through the top level kind of replies It's different It's pretty subtle I think it's an improvement overall but it's nothing dramatic from my experience is sort of effect My favorite way of using Twitter at least on the desktop is tweetdeck by far And that's actually pretty much the only way I used Twitter on desktop right now and that's because he's is It's like for power users It's for weirdos like me You can have multiple columns around yourself aware we're toe yeah where it's one of the reasons why I love Prabha tent because I just love discovering and play with these things But yeah Tweetdeck is such a powerful tool for anyone building in company I'm just surprised more people don't use it because what it allows you to do is search for any keyword or any euro So I have a call him that surfaces any mention of product on and I also include like misspellings I also include the dot coms apartment not comprar tent is it's properly spelled that allows me to see what our people sharing When are people complaining What are people talking about All those things And every day I get like his pulse of customer input and use your input I

quit too It twitter at the beginning of the year But now you're making me feel guilty I feel like I need to do this for for reforge or something So

actually I actually searched before drew pretty frequently

Okay Right Well Celia's my tweet back Then Let me know what's

all the dumpsites are you know ten dollar and incite Yeah yeah

yeah yeah What What made you quit Twitter

I start thinking a lot about like emotional resilience I don't like I think that to our previous conversation I think it's actually like a really important thing for a founder to build And it was like something that I felt like I could get stronger at And so one of one of the methods tto do that was to like identify what are all of the triggers that basically send my mind down like an unproductive path or like consumed some type of energy until the way you identify these triggers is just using like a lot of cognitive like behavioral stuff kind of like the Gratitude journal But you're supposed to specific questions and like specific type of journaling and one of the triggers I ended up coming across was like after journaling for a little bit was like Twitter would be It would be like whether it was like a friend just sold his company for a half a billion dollars or you know some other kind of competitors like launch something or feel We miss investing in that worth ten billion dollars just like all these things that can just that is just so easy to like get your mind sucked into And so I was like You know what Like this like So I tried quitting and I actually like I felt a lot better actually felt a lot But now the whole goal is to like you build enough resilient so like the triggers don't matter But it's kind of like it's like a step towards building that towards that So anyways yeah for Founder's out there like you're dealing with so much shit right that like you really got to be careful about Like what you let you know your mind get consumed by

right Consummate like the information diet What is you know we watch what we eat and we know that if we eat really bad food it maybe don't feel as well or look is good And I think the same is true for Twitter and information I am not a strong as you Brian

Well I've done a whole like content I too like I don't read that much stuff Anybody like I'll read like a few select things but yeah it's it's real like Like I mean you're a student of like Hooked and the hook to Method and the habit building And it's really you can use those things for productive or negative purposes and sometimes they're within your control and now within your control So you just have to be conscious of it So but it's hard certainly hard

So where can they find you It's non twitter were

yes my website I blogged like maybe a couple times a month Brian Bell four dot com Or if your interest in joining reforge love to have you part of a cohort And that's just that report dot com So those are my two places So and you can always email me sprynet reforge dot com I'm always opening emails Place

really met at Lee Jacobs on Twitter Still Yeah I have Ah li Jacob Psycho A za website

place from by Thanks for having us No thanks for tuning in We'LL be back next week but in the meantime shared the podcast Your friends on Twitter and tag a guest Do you like to hear in a future episode Susan No